This is the Tuesday, January 2, 2001 edition of Native America Calling. I’m your host, Harlan McKosoto. Happy New Year to all of you out there listening and tuning in. I’d like to thank all of you for continuing to make our show the success that it’s become. Today we’re going to be visiting the missing Indian trust funds that were under the management – or actually the mismanagement – of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The lead plaintiff in that case, Elouise Cobell, joins us today to give us an update on the latest developments in her efforts to force the U.S. government to account for an estimated $3 billion -- $3 billion – dollars that is missing… Joining us right now by telephone is Elouise Cobell. She is a member of the Blackfeet Nation and she is chair of the board of directors for the Blackfeet National Bank in Browning, Montana. And she of course is the lead plaintiff in the controversial case of the missing Indian trust funds. She joins us right now from Las Vegas, Nevada. Welcome back to the show, Elouise.

ELOUISE COBELL: Happy New Year. Happy to be back to the show, and Happy New Year to all of the listeners.

HOST: Yes, Happy New Year to you, too, Elouise. Is it going to be a happy new year when we look at this trust funds case? It’s been dragging on and on. Give us an update on where we’re at in this case, Elouise, if you could.

EC: Well, we’re very optimistic that it will be a happy new year for many of the beneficiaries that have been suffering for decades. But I would like to, for the purpose of the listeners, give a quick overview of the case.

HOST: Yeah, we should.

EC: Okay. As everyone knows, the lawsuit was filed on June 10, 1996 in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C. to force the federal government to account for billions of dollars belonging to approximately 500,000 American Indians. Through the document discovery and court testimony, the case has revealed mismanagement, ineptness, dishonesty and delay of federal officials, leading District Judge Royce Lamberth to declare their conduct fiscal and governmental irresponsibility in their purest form, if you can imagine. And as a result of their misconduct, Secretary of the Interior Babbitt and Assistant Secretary Gover, Secretary Robert Rubin were held in contempt of court in February 1999. And as the class evolved, on December 21, 1999, Judge Lamberth came out with a ruling that basically said it was a stunning victory for the plaintiffs. And he basically charged that the government was in breach of their obligations to the Indians. The Court said they were going to appoint – and oversee the case for a minimum of five years to insure that proper overhauling of the systems were put in place.

Well, immediately the government appealed the decision. We were dismayed that they would actually appeal that when they’d actually admitted through court testimony that they were in breach of trust. But they appealed anyway, basically saying that they really didn’t have to give the Indians an accounting. We are still waiting for that decision now. Oral arguments happened on September 5, 2000 and we haven’t heard. The court has not issued a decision yet. So that basically gives you an overview of what has happened up until this point.

I think that we did have this year a real strong statement from Congress, where Congress said we want this case settled. Settle this case. And as a result, we entered into a settlement agreement, under the impression that the Special Trustee [at Interior] had the authority to settle the case with us. We even went to the depth of flying in experts, and the expense of flying experts to D.C., and all of a sudden the Justice Department would not even let the Special Trustee meet with the experts. So, it’s been a continued battle that shouldn’t be going on.

I believe that this behavior that has been shown by the government is just unacceptable to the American people and we just need to continue to fight. And we are fighting very hard, and I’ll get into that a little bit more, Harlan.

HOST: Okay, let me ask you this. What is this costing, I mean as far as the litigation? Is this costing the taxpayers money? Where’s this money coming from to keep fighting this case by the Department of the Interior?

EC: The money is of course coming from the taxpayers’ pocket. We continue to spend lots, lots of money and accomplish nothing. Just by not settling the case, it’s costing the government and taxpayers $160,000 an hour, $7 million a day, $2.5 billion a year by not distributing the money. And so this should just be a real eye-opener for all the listeners out there. Why are they fighting, you know? I just feel that maybe the people that are working within this administration are not very honest and intelligent people. There’s no explanation why they continue to fight when there’s been testimony, people coming forward, there’s been like Interior Department employees coming forward and then the government comes in and retaliates against them and then we have to file a motion to protect those people. It’s very costly, very costly.

HOST: You know, sitting here in Albuquerque and looking at all the different news reports that you hear about the case, it seems, you know, you guys are making progress but, man, is it taking forever, seems like. You know what, I want to talk, you mentioned the outgoing administration, I want to talk about the new administration, Elouise, and what is anticipated from them. First of all I want to take a phone call…

[Phone call on unrelated topic.]

Elouise, back to you now. We’re just going to be jumping around here a little bit. You know, let’s talk about this new administration…These types of things were hoped to be settled before this administration left office. However, it’s going to carry over into this new administration. How is this going to affect the case? Do you think it’s going to slow it down or do you think that perhaps it can speed up the process?

EC: Well, it certainly can’t get any worse than it is now, I’ll tell you that. I’m in hope that this administration, the new administration will appoint some honest and intelligent people. That’s what we need is just very honest and intelligent people. And they won’t use this court case as a jobs program. That’s basically how I feel that the Justice Department has utilized this case in the past, and I’m very disappointed with the Clinton administration. So it is my hope that the Bush administration would appoint some people that have respect for the court. You know we see all through this case in the last few years since ’96, is total disrespect by the Clinton administration of the court judge. For instance, we had to file a motion for sanctions against the Secretary of the Treasury for trying to conceal a report on document destruction. So I’m just hoping that the administration will definitely appoint some intelligent and honest people and not – like I said, it just cannot get any worse than it is now.

HOST: Okay. I want to take another phone call right now. Let’s bring in Joseph from Fort Yates, North Dakota. You’re on the air.

CALLER: … I think there is mismanagement of $2 billion.

HOST: I think we all know that.

CALLER: In our reservation here, we have oil lands, huge oil deposits in North Dakota and South Dakota and these things where contracts, so many years ago, back in the BIA mismanagement and mishandling it, and individual land owners and people who were allotted and have land, they have not received their oil contracts, leases…

HOST: Royalties.

CALLER Yes.

HOST: And that’s what the case is all about, Joseph.

EC: Harlan, I’d just like to make a comment for the caller. It’s much more than $2 billion. We’re talking a minimum of $10 billion. So when we’re talking about what it’s costing the government not to settle this case, to approximately $2.5 billion a year.That’s what it’s costing. Another point I’d like to make, I was listening to earlier about demonstrations [planned for the Bush inaugural] and whatever. The amount of money – this money belongs to Native Americans. It belongs to us. And I don’t understand why more people are not up in arms over it, and beating the drum all the way to Washington, D.C., and making sure that this administration understands the importance of the mismanagement that has gone on here for decades. We’ve got to start standing up. You know, we’ve been fighting it out in court but look at the behavior that the government’s gotten away with with the Clinton administration. They’ve gotten away with behavior that should not be tolerated and is not tolerated by non-Indian people. So I just really want to make that point and drive it home, that every Indian out there shouldn’t be just sitting ho-hum, the United States government has mismanaged millions of dollars. My God, look at the conditions on the reservations, look at the horrible health conditions and what our people have to go through. And if we have this money that is ours available to us think how we could change our lifestyles. So I just wanted to make that point.

HOST: Okay, I want to go back to the phone lines. Let’s bring in Steve from Santa Fe. You’re on the air.

CALLER: Hi there, Harlan. Hi, Elouise. Elouise, I want to wish you well for your efforts in getting in getting all that money back. I’m not Native American, I’m a white man, but I know the money isn’t mine and I don’t need it. Well, I could use it but I don’t want it. You know, the genocide and mistreatment is becoming institutionalized. I think it’s just like the situation of the money. Kevin Gover was on last year and I asked him if he was going to resign if he was not able to get that money refunded. He said yes. So I was wondering what Kevin’s situation in all this is now that he’s going to be retiring. He might be able to make a big statement of some sort if he wanted to.

EC: Well, he certainly didn’t have any type of authority to help us get this case settled. Like I told you earlier, the Special Trustee said let’s get this case settled and there wasn’t Kevin Gover standing up and backing him, saying let’s get this settled. So I don’t think that he was basically walking the talk.

CALLER: Well, I wish you well.

EC: Thank you very much.

HOST: Okay Steve, thanks for your call. Let’s go to Phil here in Albuquerque. Welcome to the show.

CALLER: Thank you for having me on, Harlan. And m’am, I want to congratulate you for taking this case on, for having the tenacity and for bringing this forward and for whipping them but good, because everybody needs a good lawyer once in a while. I have to tell you, my only claim to fame to being a native is being born in the Bronx. I’m thrilled to death for what you’ve done.

EC: Well, we’re not finished yet. I know we’re going to win because it’s such a wrong. But you know we can’t say any success until we get those people paid.

CALLER: I understand that. But I’d also like to ask you to answer a somewhat rhetorical question. I am always perplexed by people who support wrong. You’ve pointed out that this administration, despite the findings of the trial court, went and turned to the appellate court and have fought you even though they know they are dead wrong. And yet the Native people – and I’ve listened to Harlan for a long time, we’ve had many conversations, sometimes he gets frustrated with me and that’s okay, Harlan – and you say what’s going on, and yet about 75 or 80 percent of the Native people turned out and who did they vote for? That guy that’s been kicking them in the teeth, Al Gore. He’s part of this administration and it’s absolutely mind-boggling to me. It’s like turning around and saying to somebody who beats you, can I come over to your house and get another beating. And for the Native people to invite Al Gore to become their president after he’s participated in the destruction of Kevin Gover, who’s a fine man. He has been beaten up by this administration. Because you said it, he should have been able to settle this case. They took the authority away from him.

HOST: Okay, Phil, thanks for your call. I need to take one more phone call, Elouise, and then we’re going to let you go, okay? Let’s take a call from Linda in Anchorage, Alaska. You’re on the air, Linda.

CALLER: [unrelated topic]

HOST: Elouise, we’re going to go to some more current events…But before we do that, Elouise, I wanted to give you about a minute here for some final comments on the trust funds case.

EC: I’d like to thank you, Harlan, and Native America Calling for continuing to have these case updates and continuing to inform the listeners of how important this case is. And so I’d just really like to thank you for letting us have the opportunity to keep everyone informed on this case. And the other thing I’d like to mention is that we now have a web site and people can be informed on a daily basis of what’s happening with the case. The web site is www.indiantrust.com. So that will give you an opportunity to keep yourself informed. So thanks again, Harlan, and wish us luck with this new administration because as we’ve known for the last 100-plus years the way they’ve gotten away with this is pushing it off from administration to administration. So thank you very much.

HOST: Thank you Elouise Cobell for joining us once again on Native America Calling to update us on the IIM case.

(Native America Calling originates at KUNM-FM in Albuquerque, NM, and is heard on about 50 stations nationwide through the American Indian Radio on Satellite network.)

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